How can you tell which trust deed is in first position?


#1

Hi Sean,
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When looking at a property that has had numerous refinance activity?over the years, how can you tell which loans are still current and which are in first position?? Will it tell you on the actual trust deed?? I’ve viewed trust deed copies at the recorders office, and I can’t figure out if it’s a first, nor can I ascertain if it paid off the loans preceding it.? Can you give me a general idea how this is determined?
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Thanks!
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Kevin
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#2

What you are asking is one of the most critical aspects of foreclosure activity. It took my hours of training and education that I paid thousands of dollars for… To think I would give away the process to achive FITES for free would be unfair to other investors who have trained and educated themselves as well.? If you’re serious about investing, go get trained and learn how to do this “Title Chain Work”
, otherwise the first house you buy at auction may be your last.


#3

foreclosure educated - I understand your position and reluctance to give away your “secrets” regarding your education, but I wasn’t asking you.? This is a forum, and the purpose of forums is for the “uneducated” to ask questions.? If you read the numerous posts in here, you’ll find many examples of people with limited knowledge posting questions that an expert such as yourself would probably find elementary.? If you don’t want to share your valuable knowledge, that’s understandable and I don’t take issue with that.? But why bother posting?? Seems like a big waste of time.


#4

I agree. Not nice. We are trying to educate ourselves. I know one way to tell is the recording date and number on the deed when it is recorded. The first recorded should have the lower number. There are enough homes out there for all of us don’t be so greedy? Mr. Educated. Hope that little bit helps kevin.


#5

I don’t know if this would be of assistance, but, after reading the posts, I google a search and found this webpostings.? I hope it is helpful.?
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http://www.brynmawr.edu/iconog/uphp/rowh/how%20to.html
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You will probably have to copy and paste the locations, because the link button has been disabled. L


#6

Actually, I ment to put this one in…
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http://www.brynmawr.edu/iconog/uphp/rowh/quick.htm
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shorter, more defined, easier to use


#7

do not forget about the possible scenario where two friends bet $10,000 usd on the BIG game. Friend A is the homeowner and looses the bet to Friend B. Friend A has no money for the 10k payment… however the 10k he now owes is equal to 10% of the Fair Market Value of the home. Friend B agrees to take 10% ownership so they notarize a grant deed stating such and record it… Friend A did not know Friend B had a 40,000 Lien / Judgement from their past that just carried over to the Friend A home… This is why training is important becuase this is just one area of many where you can be had…


#8

What exactly are you trying to do? This will help me steer you…


#9

call your local title rep and have them look up title for you…a prelim is expensive …so they do a ‘soft search’
they want the business …you need thier help…
match made in heaven


#10

Just keep in mind that even title companies offer title insurance, and the reason they do is that they make mistakes all the time.


#11

Kevin,
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When there are multiple loans over time it is important to find and match a “reconveyance” to each deed of trust you believe has been repaid. The reconveyance is the document that is filed when the loan is paid off, and it will reference the original loan document.
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One thing you do need to watch for, although rare, is fraudulent reconveyances. Unfortunately anyone can walk into a county recorder and file anything. Nothing stopping you from filing a reconveyance on your first mortgage right now. There were a couple of fradulent lenders that were refinancing folks and kept the cash rather than paying off the prior loans, and filed fraudulent reconveyances in an effort to cover their tracks (or at least delay very temporarily their arrest). So be sure to use your head and question anything that doesn’t make sense… like a foreclosure notice filed after a reconveyance.
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#12

Check with a title company or two! I’m a Broker and I still double or triple check with different title company’s to verify the information regarding a clear title, or at least knowing who has the senior loan.


#13

I noticed on the loan info on Foreclosure Radar.
I will look up auctions by?1st Senior loans yet the data looks like there was another loan with a recording Date BEFORE the 1st Senior loan? Does that mean that other loan recorded earlier was reconveyance (paid off) or was there an error made and the 1st is actually a?junior loan. How can i check before bidding on a property like that, How can I find out if the loan recorded earlier in FACT was paid off??? Love your site and info!! Thank you for your invaluable info!!! Brandi?


#14

There would be another loan before in the case of a refi. But you need to be careful. The first thing to do is to look and see if the history makes sense as shown. If the person had prior loans of $400k (original 1st), and $100k (original 2nd), and then we show a new loan of $530k labeled as a 1st – that would make sense. But if the new loan was for $350k and we showed it as a first, I’d doubt that was correct - why? - because $350k isn’t enough to pay off the prior loans. ? In any case, our loan positions are only meant as a guide. You really need to do a search at the county recorders to make sure there are no other liens or loans, and to make sure any prior liens/loans have been paid off (you should find a reconveyance recorded to indicate the pay off if they were).


#15

Thank you for the information. Would a ttle search show if there was a reconveyance or do I have to go?to the court house to find if a loan was paid off???


#16

Yes, a good title search should include that.


#17

Hi Sean,
So I was looking at the info on your the site and was wondering if the auction is for the fist loan or another.

Transaction History
Type # Date Doc # Grantee Amount
Transfer 05//05 12**** owners name $500,000
Loan 1st 05//05 1***79 HOMEWIDE LENDING $488,721

  • NOD 09//08 13***8 FIRST AMERICAN TE SVC $42,754
    Loan 2nd 05//05 1***80 HOMEWIDE LENDING $129,999
    Loan 06//08 UNK:1***78 $0
  • NTS 07//09 1***78 WITKIN & NEAL LLC $11,557

#18

Note the UNK in the doc number of the loan with the NTS. That means we weren’t sure what the document number of the loan was. In this case the best bet is to get a copy of the NTS and match it up by hand. Note you can only guess which loan is in 1st from our transaction histories. If you haven’t read the disclaimer at the top of the transaction history, please do. In this case given the NOD on the 1st, my GUESS would be that the NTS was actually on the same loan, and therefore it is a 1st going to sale.


#19

If you do not want to participate then leave the forum. Jerks like you waste every ones time.